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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><div>On 18 Aug 2014, at 01:00, Victor Boctor <<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Paul,<div><br><div><div>On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:23 AM, P Richards <<a href="mailto:***@mantisforge.org">***@mantisforge.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Rafiq,</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">As i’ve seen on the PR, and when you originally said you were looking at this a month ago, and asked you to mail the Mailing List, we need to have a discussion about the design and the approach.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] Correct. The request from you when Rafik sent out a preview was to publish the code and the discussion to the DL, which he just did. Your words were that even though the decision to use bootstrap is likely to be a short discussion, it is worth having anything.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>[Victor] The bootstrap decision really started when the website was developed. At this time, bootstrap was used and the request by the team from the Rafik was to do the same modernization to MantisBT. Hence, he started doing the work. As for plugins, they are typically easy to adapt to whatever framework MantisBT is using.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, I said we should have a be having a discussion on the mailing list and before writing code:</div><div><br></div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"Whilst I suspect that is probably a good choice, we should have been having a discussion on whether bootstrap is the way to go with Mantis or something else before writing any code.</span><font face="arial, sans-serif">”</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif">We set a policy in january that before we accept any external library changes etc, we need to have a discussion on the mailing list.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif">And sorry, the website was something that was also done without discussion initially - so that’s not really a valid point. The website has always been a separate code base to Mantis.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
One of the main requests from users in the past, is that users want slightly different thing?s - i.e. people want to be able to customise the look and feel of mantis in different ways.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] I?m not personally in favor of too much customization to the UI. ?In my opinion, a lot of the users that heavilty themed Mantis in the past were motivated to improve the look. ?However, what we really need to focus on is the ability for users to continue to be able to extend MantisBT via plugins. ?If we get into theming, we can support color shade (e.g. green template, blue template, etc) rather than complete customization. ?Complete customization adds little value and can significantly increase complexity of code and test matrix. ?I believe users evaluate MantisBT evalute it based on functionalty, look, and extensions to fill gaps that we don?t have in core or integrate their own custom functionality.</div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We?ve had a lot of questions over the years to allow alteration of bits of Mantis. What we?ve always done is been flexible with the approach - hence the fact today we have configuration variables for everything. ?</div> <div><br></div><div>If you consider the design of Mantis and the number of pages, we have 7 main things users use / want to customise:</div><div><br></div><div>a) header</div><div>b) menu bar</div><div>b) page content -> view issue</div> <div>c) page content -> view issues</div><div>d) page content -> report issue </div><div>e) page content -> my view page</div><div>f) footer</div><div><br></div><div>When people have gone in the past “it should be possible to template/theme whole of mantis’, personally - I can’t see people doing that, or it being sustainable for us.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, I can see companies that want to brand mantis replacing A+F in the list above, and potentially B</div><div><br></div><div>In terms of B/C/D/E - I suspect you would not touch the design of C/E, but the ability to tweak B+D is where most drivers come from.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For example, I scrapped the report issues page at work a long term ago as it was not suitable for non-technical users. And within Mantis at the time, the flexibility we provide for customising it does not exist. This is actually one block of Mantis where i’d agree with the people wanting support for templates.</div>
<div><br></div><div>View Issue I didn’t touch as it’s mainly technical staff that use it, however if the ability existed to template it properly, would be tweaked.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
In it’s current form, this PR isn’t suitable for this - For example - whilst it’s nicer, the reason I use mantis is due to the way it can be integrated into other systems - so the side bar is a no go.</div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>[Victor] I’m not sure what you mean by integrating MantisBT in other systems and why the side bar blocks that?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Mantis has always been a top down design - if you replace the header/footer you can embed the remaining content within another page, leaving the menu at the top for navigation.</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">For most end users, Mantis consists of 4 pages:</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">1) My View Page </div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">2) View Issues Page</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">3) Report Issues Page</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">4) View Issue Page</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">I think we can do a better job then the current theme if we focus on looking at the design and the ability to customise these 4 pages.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">For example, in a modern system, the “My View” page I would have expect to be a ajax dashboard.</div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
I sent an email a few weeks ago now for feedback on using DataTables to ajaxify the View Issues list.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div></div></div>
</blockquote><div><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><br></div></div></div></div></div><div>[Victor] This is just a scoping exercise. The first iteration’s goal is to improve the look and use a more modern code styling. Once this is in, we can follow up by enriching specific page to make it use ajax. Good examples are “My View” and filter page. Once Rafik’s change is checked in, we can all collaborate on enriching specific pages as necessary.</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt">For 3/4, the requests tend to be to allow fields to be re-ordered, turned on/off.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">At the moment, the work doesn’t help any of these requests from users.</div></div></div></blockquote><br>
</div><div>[Victor] Agreed on these features, but think of Rafik’s change as a foundation work for these features. I don’t see how there is a conflict between these features and styling of pages.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
Whilst I did try to have a look at the Pull Request, there seems to be a number of Whitespace changes, and non-theme/design changes that make it impossible to review the patches. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>[Victor] I agree that the change has some white spacing issues that cause more changes than actually needed. Maybe Rafik can explore of this issue can be fixed with reasonable effort.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:12pt">Back in January, we agreed as a Team to get 1.3 shipped, and then look at UI and email notifications changes. Victor knows I’ve got some work on templating emails and pages within Mantis from back then, which I said I’d get a PR up for once the Database changes had been done - which we agreed as a team to do immediately after 1.3. So until we’ve done this, compared the two approaches and decide which route we want to go, i’m strongly against this getting merged.</span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] Here is a case where you also have gone and implemented some change without discussion with the team. At that point I had discussed email templating (not UI tempting) and proposed an approach, some previews, and you complained and stopped the work. I’ve asked you then to share your code / approach and you haven’t. You just killed the momentum and said that you will publish your code by end of January then after 1.3. At that point we also agreed that code that is not published doesn’t exist and can’t be used to block other work. Rafik has shared a preview of this work with the team 1-2 month ago and everyone except you on the core team was excited and gave him UI level feedback which he addressed. So, I expect this code to be merged. The discussion is when exactly it is going to be merged based on the 1.3 plan.</div>
</div></blockquote></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">We agreed to ship 1.3 first so…</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">When rafiq shared a preview with people 1-2 months ago was when i jumped in immediately and said:</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
a) we should be discussing this on the dev list.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">b) we need to have a discussion on whether to go with bootstrap.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
c) I believe I said in the same post, we need to have a discussion on sidebar on the dev list.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
It?s really disappointing actually for me that Rafik has refused for 2 months to email the development list as it?s not enabled a discussion to take place properly. I think I said in the same email that I quite liked the design.?</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">Rafik is someone that?s never contributed to Mantis before, has never been introduced to us apart from dumping a website re-design and now has added a 10,000 line commit, which is basically impossible to review.</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">My purpose for asking him to communicate with the development list 2 months ago was so that we could have a discussion at an EARLY stage.?</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">As it is, until we get a PR that doesn?t contain X000 lines of incorrect whitespace changes in the first commit, it?s actually impossible to even attempt to review and look at what has been done. And that?s aside from the fact that we need to have a discussion around whether to use bootstrap.</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">Paul</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Victor Boctor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Paul,</div><br><div><div class=""><div>On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:23 AM, P Richards <<a href="mailto:***@mantisforge.org" target="_blank">***@mantisforge.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Alain,<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">It’s even more painful, when it’s a big change, and changes the approach we go in Mantis - hasn’t been discussed on the mailing list, and there’s work in progress (well, on hold until after 1.3) to allow greater flexibility of theming mantis already. We agreed back in January to use the following approach regarding external libraries:</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] When Rafik contributed the new website in January, he was asked by several on the team to help out with doing the same for MantisBT itself. Hence, his contribution. He has used Bootstrap on the website and carried that forward to MantisBT itself. Given that he has followed through with this and put this hard word, I would expect that we would motivate him for that and appreciate the good work, rather than just being negative.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Now, in terms of Rafiq’s work, I don’t necessarily see it as being a major problem (i.e. that we’ve got other work on theming) as I think it covers two different things - i.e. Rafiq’s trying to do a visual design, anything I’ve looked at tends to be working on allowing flexibility/functionality rather then visual effects, so the two probably go together in the end.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] Exactly, the visual design is orthogonal to allows users to extend MantisBT through plugins. The believe Rafik’s suggested change was focused on revamping the visual design for all features. But to scope the change, it doesn’t try to go further than that. Once it is in, we can add more flexibility and modernize further.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">My main issue is we have plugin’s that add functionality, there’s multiple CSS frameworks out there now - Jquery UI, foundation, bootstrap etc, that we do need to consider our approach within Mantis. I’m pretty confident we could make a similar style using query ui, foundation or bootstrap - without two much work, so we need to decide what works best long term.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] Bootstrap is a very popular and respected library. I think given that we have this used in the website and the proposed pull request now, I don’t see why we would go for something else. Bootstrap also provides a good story for responive design allowing us to have great native support for phones over time.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The reason I started looking at using Jquery UI in the past (we actually moved the Jquery UI javascript from a plugin to the Mantis Core) was due to it being used by some plugins, and having the visual theme roller - which struck me as something that would allow an end user without HTML or CSS experience to brand Mantis into their company colours without very much work. Given that Mantis has found a whole bunch of uses - for both software development and non-software development workflows, this struck me originally as an easy win for end users and plugin author’s for styling.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor]
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><div>On 18 Aug 2014, at 01:00, Victor Boctor <<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com">***@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite"> <div style="word-wrap:break-word">Paul,<div><br><div><div>On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:23 AM, P Richards <<a href="mailto:***@mantisforge.org">***@mantisforge.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Rafiq,</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">As i’ve seen on the PR, and when you originally said you were looking at this a month ago, and asked you to mail the Mailing List, we need to have a discussion about the design and the approach.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] Correct. The request from you when Rafik sent out a preview was to publish the code and the discussion to the DL, which he just did. Your words were that even though the decision to use bootstrap is likely to be a short discussion, it is worth having anything.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><br></div><div>[Victor] The bootstrap decision really started when the website was developed. At this time, bootstrap was used and the request by the team from the Rafik was to do the same modernization to MantisBT. Hence, he started doing the work. As for plugins, they are typically easy to adapt to whatever framework MantisBT is using.</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Actually, I said we should have a be having a discussion on the mailing list and before writing code:</div><div><br></div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"Whilst I suspect that is probably a good choice, we should have been having a discussion on whether bootstrap is the way to go with Mantis or something else before writing any code.</span><font face="arial, sans-serif">”</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif">We set a policy in january that before we accept any external library changes etc, we need to have a discussion on the mailing list.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><font face="arial, sans-serif">And sorry, the website was something that was also done without discussion initially - so that’s not really a valid point. The website has always been a separate code base to Mantis.</font></div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
One of the main requests from users in the past, is that users want slightly different thing?s - i.e. people want to be able to customise the look and feel of mantis in different ways.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] I?m not personally in favor of too much customization to the UI. ?In my opinion, a lot of the users that heavilty themed Mantis in the past were motivated to improve the look. ?However, what we really need to focus on is the ability for users to continue to be able to extend MantisBT via plugins. ?If we get into theming, we can support color shade (e.g. green template, blue template, etc) rather than complete customization. ?Complete customization adds little value and can significantly increase complexity of code and test matrix. ?I believe users evaluate MantisBT evalute it based on functionalty, look, and extensions to fill gaps that we don?t have in core or integrate their own custom functionality.</div> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We?ve had a lot of questions over the years to allow alteration of bits of Mantis. What we?ve always done is been flexible with the approach - hence the fact today we have configuration variables for everything. ?</div> <div><br></div><div>If you consider the design of Mantis and the number of pages, we have 7 main things users use / want to customise:</div><div><br></div><div>a) header</div><div>b) menu bar</div><div>b) page content -> view issue</div> <div>c) page content -> view issues</div><div>d) page content -> report issue </div><div>e) page content -> my view page</div><div>f) footer</div><div><br></div><div>When people have gone in the past “it should be possible to template/theme whole of mantis’, personally - I can’t see people doing that, or it being sustainable for us.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, I can see companies that want to brand mantis replacing A+F in the list above, and potentially B</div><div><br></div><div>In terms of B/C/D/E - I suspect you would not touch the design of C/E, but the ability to tweak B+D is where most drivers come from.</div>
<div><br></div><div>For example, I scrapped the report issues page at work a long term ago as it was not suitable for non-technical users. And within Mantis at the time, the flexibility we provide for customising it does not exist. This is actually one block of Mantis where i’d agree with the people wanting support for templates.</div>
<div><br></div><div>View Issue I didn’t touch as it’s mainly technical staff that use it, however if the ability existed to template it properly, would be tweaked.</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
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In it’s current form, this PR isn’t suitable for this - For example - whilst it’s nicer, the reason I use mantis is due to the way it can be integrated into other systems - so the side bar is a no go.</div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>[Victor] I’m not sure what you mean by integrating MantisBT in other systems and why the side bar blocks that?</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Mantis has always been a top down design - if you replace the header/footer you can embed the remaining content within another page, leaving the menu at the top for navigation.</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">For most end users, Mantis consists of 4 pages:</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">1) My View Page </div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">2) View Issues Page</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">3) Report Issues Page</div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">4) View Issue Page</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">I think we can do a better job then the current theme if we focus on looking at the design and the ability to customise these 4 pages.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">For example, in a modern system, the “My View” page I would have expect to be a ajax dashboard.</div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
I sent an email a few weeks ago now for feedback on using DataTables to ajaxify the View Issues list.</div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </div></div></div>
</blockquote><div><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><br></div></div></div></div></div><div>[Victor] This is just a scoping exercise. The first iteration’s goal is to improve the look and use a more modern code styling. Once this is in, we can follow up by enriching specific page to make it use ajax. Good examples are “My View” and filter page. Once Rafik’s change is checked in, we can all collaborate on enriching specific pages as necessary.</div>
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<span style="font-size:12pt">For 3/4, the requests tend to be to allow fields to be re-ordered, turned on/off.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="" style><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">At the moment, the work doesn’t help any of these requests from users.</div></div></div></blockquote><br>
</div><div>[Victor] Agreed on these features, but think of Rafik’s change as a foundation work for these features. I don’t see how there is a conflict between these features and styling of pages.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
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Whilst I did try to have a look at the Pull Request, there seems to be a number of Whitespace changes, and non-theme/design changes that make it impossible to review the patches. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>[Victor] I agree that the change has some white spacing issues that cause more changes than actually needed. Maybe Rafik can explore of this issue can be fixed with reasonable effort.</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
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<span style="font-size:12pt">Back in January, we agreed as a Team to get 1.3 shipped, and then look at UI and email notifications changes. Victor knows I’ve got some work on templating emails and pages within Mantis from back then, which I said I’d get a PR up for once the Database changes had been done - which we agreed as a team to do immediately after 1.3. So until we’ve done this, compared the two approaches and decide which route we want to go, i’m strongly against this getting merged.</span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>[Victor] Here is a case where you also have gone and implemented some change without discussion with the team. At that point I had discussed email templating (not UI tempting) and proposed an approach, some previews, and you complained and stopped the work. I’ve asked you then to share your code / approach and you haven’t. You just killed the momentum and said that you will publish your code by end of January then after 1.3. At that point we also agreed that code that is not published doesn’t exist and can’t be used to block other work. Rafik has shared a preview of this work with the team 1-2 month ago and everyone except you on the core team was excited and gave him UI level feedback which he addressed. So, I expect this code to be merged. The discussion is when exactly it is going to be merged based on the 1.3 plan.</div>
</div></blockquote></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">We agreed to ship 1.3 first so…</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
<br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">When rafiq shared a preview with people 1-2 months ago was when i jumped in immediately and said:</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
a) we should be discussing this on the dev list.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">b) we need to have a discussion on whether to go with bootstrap.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
c) I believe I said in the same post, we need to have a discussion on sidebar on the dev list.</div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">
It?s really disappointing actually for me that Rafik has refused for 2 months to email the development list as it?s not enabled a discussion to take place properly. I think I said in the same email that I quite liked the design.?</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">Rafik is someone that?s never contributed to Mantis before, has never been introduced to us apart from dumping a website re-design and now has added a 10,000 line commit, which is basically impossible to review.</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">My purpose for asking him to communicate with the development list 2 months ago was so that we could have a discussion at an EARLY stage.?</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">As it is, until we get a PR that doesn?t contain X000 lines of incorrect whitespace changes in the first commit, it?s actually impossible to even attempt to review and look at what has been done. And that?s aside from the fact that we need to have a discussion around whether to use bootstrap.</div> <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px">Paul</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Victor Boctor <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:***@gmail.com" target="_blank">***@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Paul,</div><br><div><div class=""><div>On Aug 17, 2014, at 2:23 AM, P Richards <<a href="mailto:***@mantisforge.org" target="_blank">***@mantisforge.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Alain,<u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">It’s even more painful, when it’s a big change, and changes the approach we go in Mantis - hasn’t been discussed on the mailing list, and there’s work in progress (well, on hold until after 1.3) to allow greater flexibility of theming mantis already. We agreed back in January to use the following approach regarding external libraries:</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] When Rafik contributed the new website in January, he was asked by several on the team to help out with doing the same for MantisBT itself. Hence, his contribution. He has used Bootstrap on the website and carried that forward to MantisBT itself. Given that he has followed through with this and put this hard word, I would expect that we would motivate him for that and appreciate the good work, rather than just being negative.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Now, in terms of Rafiq’s work, I don’t necessarily see it as being a major problem (i.e. that we’ve got other work on theming) as I think it covers two different things - i.e. Rafiq’s trying to do a visual design, anything I’ve looked at tends to be working on allowing flexibility/functionality rather then visual effects, so the two probably go together in the end.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] Exactly, the visual design is orthogonal to allows users to extend MantisBT through plugins. The believe Rafik’s suggested change was focused on revamping the visual design for all features. But to scope the change, it doesn’t try to go further than that. Once it is in, we can add more flexibility and modernize further.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">My main issue is we have plugin’s that add functionality, there’s multiple CSS frameworks out there now - Jquery UI, foundation, bootstrap etc, that we do need to consider our approach within Mantis. I’m pretty confident we could make a similar style using query ui, foundation or bootstrap - without two much work, so we need to decide what works best long term.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor] Bootstrap is a very popular and respected library. I think given that we have this used in the website and the proposed pull request now, I don’t see why we would go for something else. Bootstrap also provides a good story for responive design allowing us to have great native support for phones over time.</div>
<div class=""><br><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-GB" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">
<div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u><u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The reason I started looking at using Jquery UI in the past (we actually moved the Jquery UI javascript from a plugin to the Mantis Core) was due to it being used by some plugins, and having the visual theme roller - which struck me as something that would allow an end user without HTML or CSS experience to brand Mantis into their company colours without very much work. Given that Mantis has found a whole bunch of uses - for both software development and non-software development workflows, this struck me originally as an easy win for end users and plugin author’s for styling.</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>[Victor]