Discussion:
[mantisbt-dev] FW: [mantisbt-commits] [mantisbt/mantisbt] 1c18e7: Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs s...
Paul Richards
2015-08-03 19:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi Damien,

It would be nice if you actually spoke to me first before removing myself from the credit's. I'm still developing on mantis daily.

Thanks
Paul



-----Original Message-----
From: GitHub [mailto:***@github.com]
Sent: 03 August 2015 20:14
To: mantisbt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: [mantisbt-commits] [mantisbt/mantisbt] 1c18e7: Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs s...

Branch: refs/heads/master
Home: https://github.com/mantisbt/mantisbt
Commit: 1c18e7198a587c631c89ec5d61cec63355eb70b1
https://github.com/mantisbt/mantisbt/commit/1c18e7198a587c631c89ec5d61cec63355eb70b1
Author: Damien Regad <***@mantisbt.org>
Date: 2015-08-03 (Mon, 03 Aug 2015)

Changed paths:
M doc/CREDITS

Log Message:
-----------
Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs section
Damien Regad
2015-08-03 20:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Richards
It would be nice if you actually spoke to me first before removing
myself from the credit's.
Hi Paul

As the commit message says, I did not *remove* you from the list, I just
moved your (and Daryn's) name to the "former developers" section.

This reflects a change which was already made in 1.2.x branch several
months ago, following your leaving the team...
Post by Paul Richards
I'm still developing on mantis daily.
Glad to hear that, but I have not seen any activity from you since the
day you closed all your PR's...

D



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P Richards
2015-08-03 21:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi Damien,

When I first joined the Mantis Team, and effectively work free-of-charge,
that was on the basis that the core developers were not making money out of
it.

I believe Victor broke that agreement - when he started up mantishub, and
later on removed my access.

That puts me in an interesting position:

a) I was never asked to transfer copyright of the code I wrote to anyone
else
b) I (originally -yes, 10+ years ago) agreed not to ask for anything in
return for my work on Mantis on the basis that the team were doing the same.


At the moment, I believe I've been misled by Victor - who has used mantis
for personal gain.

Having spoken to a solicitor friend in the UK, he's advice to me was to ask
the project to remove(/rewrite) contributions to Mantis from myself, and if
this was refused, to submit a DMCA notice to Github.

Both of those are actions I do not particularly want to do/consider as I
believe that:
a) Mantis over the last 3 years has mainly been developed by 3 people -
Victor, yourself and myself. Rombert doing SOAP stuff occasionally, and
atrol doing lots of user support. The contribution to mantis of each of us
is tremendous, and I believe that trying to implement the first suggestion
would be almost impossible.
b) submitting DMCA notices - There is currently code in the mantisbt
repository that was never part of core, and I asked about having removed. As
you know from when we asked github, they can't do it because of the forks.
Equally, I don't even want to consider trying to work out how github would
attempt to handle a DMCA notice against part of a repository, but not a full
repository...

My solution and way out of the above problem has been to go back to what was
discussed 4 years ago now (maybe even just before yourself and rombert
joined the project) about implementing a mantisbt2 project which contains a
modern design - it gives me something to do and avoids the issues I outline
above. Some users I've worked with over the years may make a move to the new
project - equally, others wouldn't - and over time, both projects would pick
up new users.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Damien Regad [mailto:***@mantisbt.org]
Sent: 03 August 2015 21:23
To: Mantisbt-***@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [mantisbt-dev] FW: [mantisbt-commits] [mantisbt/mantisbt]
1c18e7: Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs s...
Post by Paul Richards
It would be nice if you actually spoke to me first before removing
myself from the credit's.
Hi Paul

As the commit message says, I did not *remove* you from the list, I just
moved your (and Daryn's) name to the "former developers" section.

This reflects a change which was already made in 1.2.x branch several months
ago, following your leaving the team...
Post by Paul Richards
I'm still developing on mantis daily.
Glad to hear that, but I have not seen any activity from you since the day
you closed all your PR's...

D



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https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mantisbt-dev


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Paul Richards
2015-08-03 21:23:07 UTC
Permalink
"At the moment, I believe I've been misled by Victor - who has used mantis
for personal gain."

And let me just clarify that - as "misled" is quite a strong word, and not
necessarily reflective of what i mean:

In the 10+ years of working on mantis, I've not once asked or received for
anything in return. In the early days, on the odd occasion that someone
said they might be some consulting opportunity available - I would
generally say "no thanks, not interested". And working equally on the
project, with no one receiving anything in return out of it, was what I
originally signed up for.

However, when you have a team of 5 equal people, and one person adds a link
on the shared project website to their personal commercial project, I do
consider that not to be fair behavior - as that's pretty much a 'takeover'.

Paul
Post by Paul Richards
Hi Damien,
When I first joined the Mantis Team, and effectively work free-of-charge,
that was on the basis that the core developers were not making money out of
it.
I believe Victor broke that agreement - when he started up mantishub, and
later on removed my access.
a) I was never asked to transfer copyright of the code I wrote to anyone
else
b) I (originally -yes, 10+ years ago) agreed not to ask for anything in
return for my work on Mantis on the basis that the team were doing the same.
At the moment, I believe I've been misled by Victor - who has used mantis
for personal gain.
Having spoken to a solicitor friend in the UK, he's advice to me was to ask
the project to remove(/rewrite) contributions to Mantis from myself, and if
this was refused, to submit a DMCA notice to Github.
Both of those are actions I do not particularly want to do/consider as I
a) Mantis over the last 3 years has mainly been developed by 3 people -
Victor, yourself and myself. Rombert doing SOAP stuff occasionally, and
atrol doing lots of user support. The contribution to mantis of each of us
is tremendous, and I believe that trying to implement the first suggestion
would be almost impossible.
b) submitting DMCA notices - There is currently code in the mantisbt
repository that was never part of core, and I asked about having removed. As
you know from when we asked github, they can't do it because of the forks.
Equally, I don't even want to consider trying to work out how github would
attempt to handle a DMCA notice against part of a repository, but not a full
repository...
My solution and way out of the above problem has been to go back to what was
discussed 4 years ago now (maybe even just before yourself and rombert
joined the project) about implementing a mantisbt2 project which contains a
modern design - it gives me something to do and avoids the issues I outline
above. Some users I've worked with over the years may make a move to the new
project - equally, others wouldn't - and over time, both projects would pick
up new users.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 03 August 2015 21:23
Subject: Re: [mantisbt-dev] FW: [mantisbt-commits] [mantisbt/mantisbt]
1c18e7: Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs s...
Post by Paul Richards
It would be nice if you actually spoke to me first before removing
myself from the credit's.
Hi Paul
As the commit message says, I did not *remove* you from the list, I just
moved your (and Daryn's) name to the "former developers" section.
This reflects a change which was already made in 1.2.x branch several months
ago, following your leaving the team...
Post by Paul Richards
I'm still developing on mantis daily.
Glad to hear that, but I have not seen any activity from you since the day
you closed all your PR's...
D
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Victor Boctor
2015-08-04 02:07:02 UTC
Permalink
I’m going to keep this short since we have spent tons of time on this already.

- Feel free to have your own fork of MantisBT as discussed earlier. As per our discussion earlier, the only request from our side is to avoid naming confusion for the sake of our users.
- You are a former developer of this project, but I assume you will be the lead for the new fork and we will be former developers of your fork. Users as well as contributors can decide to join forces with your project.
- When you contribute to open source with a GPL license, you don’t put restrictions on the future of the project or any of its future forks. I’m not aware of a “signup agreement” that said otherwise.

Good luck with your fork. Let’s focus energy on bring value to our customers.
Post by Paul Richards
"At the moment, I believe I've been misled by Victor - who has used mantis
for personal gain."
In the 10+ years of working on mantis, I've not once asked or received for anything in return. In the early days, on the odd occasion that someone said they might be some consulting opportunity available - I would generally say "no thanks, not interested". And working equally on the project, with no one receiving anything in return out of it, was what I originally signed up for.
However, when you have a team of 5 equal people, and one person adds a link on the shared project website to their personal commercial project, I do consider that not to be fair behavior - as that's pretty much a 'takeover'.
Paul
Hi Damien,
When I first joined the Mantis Team, and effectively work free-of-charge,
that was on the basis that the core developers were not making money out of
it.
I believe Victor broke that agreement - when he started up mantishub, and
later on removed my access.
a) I was never asked to transfer copyright of the code I wrote to anyone
else
b) I (originally -yes, 10+ years ago) agreed not to ask for anything in
return for my work on Mantis on the basis that the team were doing the same.
At the moment, I believe I've been misled by Victor - who has used mantis
for personal gain.
Having spoken to a solicitor friend in the UK, he's advice to me was to ask
the project to remove(/rewrite) contributions to Mantis from myself, and if
this was refused, to submit a DMCA notice to Github.
Both of those are actions I do not particularly want to do/consider as I
a) Mantis over the last 3 years has mainly been developed by 3 people -
Victor, yourself and myself. Rombert doing SOAP stuff occasionally, and
atrol doing lots of user support. The contribution to mantis of each of us
is tremendous, and I believe that trying to implement the first suggestion
would be almost impossible.
b) submitting DMCA notices - There is currently code in the mantisbt
repository that was never part of core, and I asked about having removed. As
you know from when we asked github, they can't do it because of the forks.
Equally, I don't even want to consider trying to work out how github would
attempt to handle a DMCA notice against part of a repository, but not a full
repository...
My solution and way out of the above problem has been to go back to what was
discussed 4 years ago now (maybe even just before yourself and rombert
joined the project) about implementing a mantisbt2 project which contains a
modern design - it gives me something to do and avoids the issues I outline
above. Some users I've worked with over the years may make a move to the new
project - equally, others wouldn't - and over time, both projects would pick
up new users.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 03 August 2015 21:23
Subject: Re: [mantisbt-dev] FW: [mantisbt-commits] [mantisbt/mantisbt]
1c18e7: Credits: move grangeway and daryn to former devs s...
Post by Paul Richards
It would be nice if you actually spoke to me first before removing
myself from the credit's.
Hi Paul
As the commit message says, I did not *remove* you from the list, I just
moved your (and Daryn's) name to the "former developers" section.
This reflects a change which was already made in 1.2.x branch several months
ago, following your leaving the team...
Post by Paul Richards
I'm still developing on mantis daily.
Glad to hear that, but I have not seen any activity from you since the day
you closed all your PR's...
D
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